How Robert Kiyosaki created the sub-prime crisis

Property investor and founder of Sirius, Wayne Lee, has penned a fascinating article on why he thinks popular Rich Dad, Poor Dad author played a key role in the sub-prime crisis and why unique South African issues are bedevilling SA property investors:

Quite a strong statement bit here's my theory.

In 1991 I studied a Commercial Finance course which explained gearing. In my first job at "The Receiver" my manager had a property and I used to go fetch the rent with him. I put two-and-two together and started buying some for myself, friends and family. Not many people agreed with what I was doing.

Then in 1997 a book "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" was printed. I actually emailed (author) Kiyosaki, and his wife mailed me back. I nearly met him, she said we had just missed each other in Johannesburg. This was before he got Real Big!  His books are brilliant, and probably the most user-friendly, in terms of gearing, ever written.  Most people just never "got it" before his books. The problem is they did not "get" some other stuff in his books.

His books emphasise "emotional intelligence" all the time. Quite simply, if you want your own business but think selling is not for you - you are not emotionally intelligent. After reading his books if you still want to invest where all your mates invest (and they're not multi-millionaires) you have missed it again.

So Kiyosaki reveals "The secret" and the property boom wheels started rolling. Use the bank's money, buy houses and retire - at about the speed at which I just typed it. But in his second book he says people around the world who are poor and become wealthy do these three things:        

* Delayed gratification;

* Use compound interest in their favour;

* Focus on long term concepts.

But no Robert, we're unsure why you're on about these rentals and you call us capital growth chasers "losers". It seems, like Buffett did not understand the IT boom, you just don't understand the new game. But just like Buffett, it seems he saw the bubble. His book, though, had created euphoria not even he could slow down. Everyone climbed in; even the non-believers at least remortgaged their homes to buy boats and jet-skis.

The banks were fighting for the business and saw the unabated growth in front of their eyes. It's as infectious as buying IT companies at R70 a share, because your mate had bought at R45. Neither knew how to read financial statements, and now the share stays below R10. As in all bubbles, fundamentals are irrelevant and for the conservative. So there we go - it eventually collapses.

Now the gurus in South Africa will say it's different here, because we have the emerging middle class that will drive this country into the stratosphere, but they all happen to be black so crime will go up and you must buy security complexes. For full understanding of my comment please read "For Whites Only" by C. Cilliers, which will go down as the best race relations book for South Africans ever written !

So yes the return on freehold has beaten sectional title five years in a row, but when the "swaart gevaar" pull in we're in trouble, and then sectional title will be the place to be. I don't think so. If I want to live on top of someone I'll go to London and earn pounds, but in SA I love the space. Here's a hint - If you believe crime will only go up don't invest here - invest somewhere else. It does not make sense that people will continually choose to live in a crime invested place, so your investment won't grow. Unless of course, you believe black people are more suited to living with crime. Now, if you believe our black government won't or can't fix the crime, same advice: Invest elsewhere.

So the rest of the world had a bursting bubble. What happened here? Some might consider this left field but for those who have read Cilliers's book it's totally understandable. You see our white population, because of the advantages of Apartheid, had greater access to this leverage thing due to higher income. So the early catchers got going. But they got going; at least 90% anyway, with this racial baggage that tells them that black people use loan sharks, are bad with money, make fires in their lounges and will wreck your investment.

So what did they do? They focused on your "white" areas, bought from a white developer and a white sales guy - and to hopefully rent to some white guy or black guy who is ready to act white. So everything is safe except the negative talk gets to its tipping point and the white guys start emigrating and you run out of tenants. And your R2, 5m refinanced property you bought five years ago for R500 000 to live in is starting to hurt because the black government is messing with the interest rates.

And now you can only get R1,8m and the bankers who drive all the nice cars and who consolidated your debt so that you too can buy the car are just not helping you with the increased repayments, probably because they are in the same mess.

That's enough negative talk. It is not uncommon for 30-somethings, white and black, to have properties in excess of R1,5m paid off. In fact Lightstone reports have indicated that 70% of properties bought by black people in SA since 1997 are paid off! So we are all much better off than 10 years ago unless we broke the rules and geared for consumption, but what do you expect?

So there are many areas in South Africa where demand to live there keeps growing, where rental demand remains extremely buoyant. I spoke to someone recently who couldn't believe the vacancies in Chicago and Washington. Now when you watch the white press and see all the "For sale" and "To let" boards in front of townhouse complexes in SA and think we are always behind and the sub-prime is about to hit us hard, think again.

Exchange controls restricted our companies from investing in all these quick money products, not their own intuition. The NCA (National Credit Act) helped slow down the euphoria. And our black population is rather debt-averse.  So the R1,5 to R3m market is bloodied but if you are waiting for that R650 000 property at less than 60% of replacement cost to drop, don't hold your breath.

So there are a few reasons this sub-prime thing missed us. Not all of us mind you. The guys who speculated on the basis of "Buy off-plan and make money before transfer" have learnt that an increasing interest rate cycle just is not the same (money) printing machine that a declining interest rate cycle is. But there are large chunks of properties that have still attained at least 30% in the last 18 months. They were however purchased for the holy grail of property investing: rental flow and a demand to live there.

Property Investing that Kiyosaki advocates is based on fundamentals. When every man and his dog becomes an investor, you'd better be a good investor, have a good sniffer dog or do something else. But when every man and his dog say there's no more money in it, it may be time to re-think. Demand and supply really, of an essential good, is something that can be monitored closely. I do not think that the speculators are going to like the next five years but the rental chasers may be in for quite a ride. That is the nice thing about long-term investing: sometimes people are in the mood to buy, and sometimes they are in the mood to rent. Either way the landlord makes the rules.

More about the Realestateweb guest expert: Wayne Lee started buying property in 1993 after discovering the internal rate of return calculation in his B-Comm studies. After assisting a few friends and family in some purchases he realised there was a market in assisting people with the purchase and management of properties. He founded Sirius in 1998.

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developer and a white sales guy - and to hopefully rent to some white guy or black guy who is ready to act white.

Wayne Lee, founder, Sirius

 

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Comments

 

responses to this article

Siriusly great article Wow what a change from ostrich's with their heads in the sand. Article captures the reality of ZA quite brilliantly by Newton 2 on November 03 2008, 08:32 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Robert Kiyosaki If you are going to mention Kiyosaki don't forget to mention the not only does rich dad not exit but the only real money Kiyosaki ever made was from book sales, and the only way he managed that was by being friendly with some high up types in Amway and . .more getting them to sell his books. There is no public record of Kiyosaki's ownership of any of the companies he talks about. . .less by Anonymouse on November 03 2008, 08:37 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Book Sales Is he also friendly with high up guys in CNA and Exclusive Books ? What I have noticed is the poorer people are, the more critical they are of ideas. But thanks to the internet anyone can submit their opinion. As Kiyosaki says we all need to . .more learn to discern. . .less by Wayne on November 03 2008, 08:49 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

"And our black population is rather debt-averse."... ...is just a touch inaccurate. If there's one segment of the population that is more in debt than anyone it's probably our 'black diamond' (notice how little that phrase gets thrown around these days) middle class. http://capetownbubble.blogspot.com by CT Bubble on November 03 2008, 08:57 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Re: Book sales The story goes that Robert got a "Diamond level Distributor" to take a liking to his book because it pushed the whole annuity income/be your own boss stuff that Amway uses as a sales tactic and the purchases by the Amway sheeple helped push him up the . .more bestseller ladder which got him noticed by the regular retail bookshops. Also lets face it he is an entertaining and inspiring read. What irritates me is that its fiction that gets sold as fact. If you are going to quote made up fortunes you might as well quote Scrooge McDuck. Most of the self-made rich people I've met analyze everything really carefully, its the greedy/desperate who tend to grab at any kind of get rich quick scheme or take the advice of self proclaimed investment Gurus. . .less by Anonymouse on November 03 2008, 09:29 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

I detest RK books ! They are drivel and make good bonfire material. Gearing works both ways. So speculators, flippers and landlords all have same timelines? I think not. Other factors that influence property ownership are welfare state or not. Tax benefits on . .more mortgages. Security of Tenure. . .less by Bull on November 03 2008, 10:54 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

AND another thing Buffets net worth is down about 22%... as are other Billionaires. Did they all make investment mistakes and they all should have got out of the market? Why is it OK for Buffet to say now is a great time to be buying equities if you have a long timeline, . .more ditto the Moneyweb Johann Rupert interview article that mentioned 7 year timeline for JSE stocks. How come property (paradoxically) seems to be discussed with purely a short timeline? Contrary to the hype, its not the end of the world for property. If there is money available for equities there is money available for property. . .less by Bull on November 03 2008, 11:09 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Men and their dogs...... When they say: Lots of money to be made in property....you sell. When they say: There is no money in property.....you buy. by Donkie on November 03 2008, 12:00 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Good Article Wayne The stars are aligning and those that can see the opportunities will succeed, others will suffer by "analysis paralysis" and not do anything as skeptics till death. Its all quite simple and most complicate property as an investment class. . .more Also SA is not for everyone, some will stay, some will move on but if you look there is so much this country has to offer. . .less by Brennan on November 03 2008, 13:08 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Like what Brennan? I am curious. What does this country (SA) have to offer? by Donkie on November 03 2008, 13:23 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

A few comments A more intelligent article than we are used to from the property guys. Some parts I agree with, some I don't. A few thoughts - firstly is this the Wayne that regularly posts here under that name ? I agree, Mr Rich Dad Poor Dad had a lot . .more to do with the property bubble of the last decade. When everyone climbed on the bandwagon and ended up buying and selling to each other at ever increasing prices, spured on by the governments and banks, the seeds for the present disaster were being planted. A couple of investors could sell the same house back and forth to each other, charging 25% more each time, and both would get rich ... until the market turned, that is, and one of them was left owning a house that plunged 50% in value, wiping out all his gains and more. That is what's happening now. When Kiyosaki visited SA he said he would have not invested here after 2003 because the ratios were out of whack. I suspect he would still find then concerning. Wayne owns a property company that started exactly at the start of the boom decade. He has ridden the wave and no doubt got rich. That was then, this is now. Everything has now changed. Yet he is plugging property on his website as if nothing has happened. This makes me nervous. The rules are different. The decade of property is over. . .less by CJ Says on November 03 2008, 14:09 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Black South Africans and debt The majority of black workers are not clued up on the ways of finance - I talk to my workers and they are not even sure what "interest" is. This makes them an ideal target for every bank, department store and con man out there. I try to help my . .more guys get ahead of the game - get some cash in the bank for a rainy day I preach. I pay them pretty well with some nice incentive bonuses, yet they never have money. It drives me nuts. I discovered 2 had made purchases from a large department store. By the time everything was included, they would end up paying 4 times the price of the item over a 3 year period. The workers weren't aware that this is what they had done. I extricated one of them from the deal and lent him the money which he then paid off over a few months. Great, he can now get ahead. Except now granny dies and even though he is broke, he is expected to pay, so I have just discovered he has borrowed 10,000 from a bank at 30% interest, which means he ends up paying double this back over 3 years. So he is back in a financial hole again. It makes me so mad. Doesn't anyone save money any more. I believe the new financial era we are heading into will be one where people will return to buying only things that they can afford and have the cash for. I think the days of buying with debt are largely over for a decade or two . .less by CJ Says on November 03 2008, 14:30 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@ctbubble I Suggest you check again boet. If you really check you will find that most of the black Guys who came to urban areas from rural areas have payed for houses in the rural areas. you will also find that middle class people in rural areas tended to buid a . .more house first and then buy a car both cash. I come from what was Venda and should know. "Black diamonds" are the most indebted ?, just cant believe it. Remember only a fraction of black south africans actualy travell. Most of us when we go on holidays we go to the rural areas where we have family. you will find that the two occasions above are some of the occasions people borrow money for sometimes. How many blacks have you seen whith motor boats and caravans ?There are so many things about blacks that are hearsay than imperical. . .less by African on November 03 2008, 14:48 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

When will the property market bottom ? When houses cost 3 to 3.5 times the salaries of the people buying them. When house prices are about 10 or 11 times the annual rent. Once these ratios return for most properties, the real price of property will have dropped about 63%. The real . .more price chart will then stop it's descent and flatten out. This will take a minimum of 3 more years - probably much more. When prices then move up, it will be below inflation - at some stage there may be a short year or two where the real price will rise but it will then probably drop again for a few more years. The earliest time when property will have decent increases again will be post 2018. Maybe even later. As I keep saying, the rules have changed. Don't worry about being left behind whilst property rockets up again - those days are long gone. For most people, the person who waits 4 years before buying will be much better of financially than the person who buys today - it's as simple as that. Beware the property hype merchants because they are desperate people and will probably speak with forked tongues. . .less by CJ Says on November 03 2008, 14:56 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

CJ, you know what makes me mad? These time lines of yours. "I think the days of buying with debt are largely over for a decade or two" Or " Think property will take 10 year to recover" Foksake- where can I get this crystal ball of . .more yours? You don't know S***!!!!!!!! You just assume something, and then accept it as fact, and then you come and post your S*** here. Stop posting stupid comments please. . .less by Donkie on November 03 2008, 14:57 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

CJ PLEASE STOP, YOU ARE KILLING ME!!!!!!!! "When will the property market bottom ?" "When houses cost 3 to 3.5 times the salaries of the people buying them" You might not know this, but when you apply for a loan, your salary must be rougly 3 time more than your monthly . .more instalment. When you only take a 50% bond??? Do the math please. "When house prices are about 10 or 11 times the annual rent." Huh, you mean when your monthly rent is the same/more than the instalmet on a 100% bond on the same house? You think??? Seriously, are you writing from a special school? . .less by Donkie on November 03 2008, 15:25 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

So did Kiyosaki contribute or not? How does the title relate to the content. I do believe that at least part of the global warming of the property market was caused by the Kiyosaki effect, and have stated so on this website (just two days ago, I think!), but this article does not provide . .more much clarity. . .less by Frank on November 03 2008, 15:32 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

How do you tell what the market value of a property is... I know everythings negotiable, but when i look at the property times I still can't afford the same type of property in the same area that i looked at over a year ago. How do you establish what a reasonable offer should be and how do i avoid overpaying. . .more Any guidance is welcome. . .less by Buyer on November 03 2008, 15:40 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Donkie, CJ makes projections at least! So you need to see how things pan out before you call him stupid. by Frank on November 03 2008, 15:44 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Re:Book sales very true, Amway through Network 21 realy pushed the rich dad poor dad thing, was a good way too hid the fact that with Amway you had too sell shampoo and toothpast to make money, by Cuzzd on November 03 2008, 15:47 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Jeez Brennan !!!! You've been over exposed to Heat Magazine's Horoscope section...."The stars are aligning" bwa ha ha !!! :-) I'm eagerly awaiting Moneyweb's new Astrology page edited by resident astrologer, Brennan...bwa ha ha !!! Sorry Brennan. I just couldn't . .more resist that. ;-) . .less by Freemarketman on November 03 2008, 15:55 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Astrology page might be suitable for Bears with Visions....Kiyosaki... So did Kiyosaki contribute or not? No! He is overrated, his books are overrated and the percentage of people who don't even know him yet bought houses is considerable. You looking for scapegoat? Try banks with their media advertising, email . .more offers of credit, TV spots, magazine articles. Predatory lending practices still have to have their full day in court. Its not over, its only just begun... As for why renters mostly still rent and cannot afford to buy after years of saving? Because they move out of affordable areas and rent in high priced golf estates and their expectations increase that a golf estate is in their purchasing bracket, their savings are not optimum, they are living above their means. . .less by Bull on November 03 2008, 16:11 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Bottomed out. Yeah right - Dream on CJ - Some ares have only begun to grow. Careful guys - Your exclusive little white suburbs aren't the whole market. As for your little story about your black workers - Thanks for the patronising. Go read "For . .more Whites Only" and see how you embarrass yourself. In his book he explains that 90 % of white guys are racist because of the deep brainwashing and don't even know it. It's a process to release these feelings but when the racism accounts for 99% of your financial (negative) forecasts, you really display your ignorance. You have also intimated previously that "black tenant" = "slum lord". No problem CJ, because of Apartheid, access to capital is still more favoured to the whites, but like you they're all negative, rent properties and buy nice cars, because they don't want to invest with a black govt. So keep it up and keep making it easy for the rest of us. Remember I am an investor and like it when 9 out of 10 disagree with me - It's the only confirmation I have that I am doing the right thing. PS - Your stereo typing of the majority of your black workers shows your colours. How much do you pay them - Are they banking staff ? Because worldwide there's a bunch of well-paid predominantly white guys who really didn't understand interest. . .less by Wayne on November 03 2008, 16:20 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

we need to define success - extreme wealth is not the only yardstick in fact, it probably is the single biggest detractor......... by GungetsTuft on November 03 2008, 17:57 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Donkie Donkie I dont know if you have taken a wagon trip to Botswana, the road is littered with your brother and sister donkies who just stand there waiting in the road to get run over by a car or truck. So roads are dangerous in Botswana if you are a Donkie. . .more However Botswana is one of the richest countries in Africa. So it all depends on how you see things, very easy to be a stubborn Donkie but those so called dangerous roads lead to the market. . .less by farmer brown on November 03 2008, 21:04 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

CJ Says I noticed you mentioned the price must be 10 or 11 times the rent for it to bottom out. Jislaaik CJ, the owners in Cape Town do pay a premium for the mountain, if it's no-where near there now. That's what you get for telling the world it's . .more beautiful. And where you rent, it's probably a big piece of land so the owner's going to subdivide and build or sell to someone who builds a block. You gonna miss the next boom when you're actually sitting on it. In different parts of the country, the prices are about 7 times the rental. What does your theoretical analysis predict for us there ? I actually agree with some of your technical stuff - as we've discussed before, though regarding the rest of the country you guess, and have no fact, and because the colour ratios start going against you, you don't dare go there. PS Kiyosaki said he wouldn't invest here because he didn't like our eviction laws. There are solutions to that and since he said it we had the highest growth in the world. I said he was a good author - I didn't say he was God. . .less by Wayne on November 03 2008, 21:30 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@ CJ, do we really need to hear about your little business here? But seeing that you bring it up... CJ says he pays them pretty well.. yeah buddy you are so tight, you even admitted that yourself so you cant really know what it is like to pay well surely..? And those "nice incentive bonuses" prey tell what . .more would that be? Could it be some free daily advise on how to stay poor with me the baas? Sorry but I too could not resist. Oh and about the days of credit been gone, we all know the market always over reacts. It will recover, but credit gone, no.. its still here, the banks are still lending to those with good credit records and scores. Interest rates will go down which will have a major effect on affordability whether you get a wage increase or not. Just remember it took affordability to get property prices to the levels achieved even with the NCA in play. . .less by brennan on November 03 2008, 21:46 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

what a pitty I just wish they had your picture here Wayne, so that CJ could see that you and I are not the same oke. Remember that? lol Truth be told Wayne knows his stuff, knew when to get in and has made himself and his clients money no doubt. Those that . .more did not get in before the boom can only blame themselves, yet they seem to believe they are the biggest experts on timing the market... now if I can borrow a line from freemarketman "bwa ha ha !!!" Yet timing the market for capital appreciation is not investing is it..? That strategy is for speculators the very people our property bears detest. funny that... . .less by Brennan on November 03 2008, 22:35 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

timing the market for capital appreciation is not investing is it? Yes it is. When you buy shares you buying purely for dividend yield? or expectation of dividend yield and a rising share price? If you start a business and invest start-up money do you expect just a wage? or eventually a wage, profit and be able to exit . .more the business at a greater price than your start up capital? . .less by Bull on November 04 2008, 05:31 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Kiyosaki, and why is timing not investing? What has been the global reach of the Kiyosaki effect? according to reports " He has, virtually single-handedly, challenged and changed the way tens of millions, around the world, think about money. " And this means don't study, get a job and work, rather . .more risk Other Peoples Money and do deals that add no value, but just heat up the property market. The boom from 2000 to 2007 has stopped dead in its tracks, so that is not going to work anymore. If you look at price growth history, it's not too difficult to time the housing market, so why not do it? You can be out by a year or two, and in the illiquid property market still not miss out by too much. Why is that not investing? With an illiquid asset that can be highly geared, and governed by all sorts of regs and upfront costs, I would think timing is really important. The difference between speculating and investing is that investing takes judgment and patience. That means reading bear and bull signs correctly and acting accordingly. Currently bear fingerprints are all over the market, and it is partly due to speculation in the past few years.. . .less by Frank on November 04 2008, 05:54 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

SA - highest growth rate? Surely not, Wayne. When? China, India, Russia have been powering ahead until recently. And SA's growth rate has looked shabby compared to the African average this decade. Please correct me if I am wrong, Wayne. by Felix on November 04 2008, 07:07 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Ah, so the Wayne in the article IS the same as our resident Wayne I am assuming your are a man of colour, am I right - one with a teeny weeny chip on his shoulder perhaps? Let me get this right - I provide jobs for black skinned South Africans, I loan them interest free money when they have emergencies, I get . .more them out of exploitative contracts when furniture companies are ripping them off, I set them up with bank accounts and show them how to save for the future and explain the basics like what interest is, I try to help them get a brick house instead of their shack ... and all this makes me racist. As for the "slum lord' comment - I don't recall race being mentioned at all. The threads where slum lords were mentioned were in reference to people like you who were boasting that they like buying houses in the inner city areas because they could charge the poor people there 3 times more, in ratio to the house price, than people like me in the suburbs are paying. You are not so righteous when it comes to ripping off your inner city tenants for personal financial gain, it appears . .less by CJ Says on November 04 2008, 08:11 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Cape Town and Kiyosaki If Cape Town is expensive because of the mountain then BOTH house prices AND rents should be higher. They are not. Rents in fact are lower than Gauteng it seems. So houses should also be lower. No, you are wrong, Kiyosaki said on Cape Talk that . .more he would not have invested in SA after 2003 because prices were already overvalued - I heard him say it. . .less by CJ Says on November 04 2008, 08:17 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Beating a dead horse Dear Wayne, To me, you appear to be obsessed with race. So if 90% of white males are racist, please do tell what are the percentages for blacks, coloureds, asians etc. I'm very fortunate to have been exposed to and have witnessed various forms of . .more racism in SA. White on Black, Black on White, White on Colourerd, Coloured on White, White on Asian, Asian on White, Black on Coloured, Coloured on Black, Black on Asian, Asian on Black etc. etc. etc. There are individuals and groups from all colour groups who have a vested interest in keeping the fire of racism smouldering for their own benefit. Just as the fire begins to die, someone "innocently" comes along and stokes it again. It is becoming a tad boring and I'm sure a lot of people from all races are sick and tired of this. . .less by Freemarketman on November 04 2008, 08:42 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Be very careful about throwing stones Brennan You must stop doing this Brennan, creating a little scenario in your head and then commenting on it. How does the thought process go, something like this perhaps - "that CJ is so horrible to us property investors and he also believes in using money . .more sensibly and having savings in the bank, so he must be a nasty racist who exploits his workers, so let me quickly post a comment on this". If I disappear today there are quite a number of South Africans who then become jobless and can't feed their families - tell me again how many jobs you are creating ? Oh I forgot, your business strategy is to trawl the internet looking for home owners in a financial crisis and then exploiting their predicament by squeezing as low a price as possible for their house. I think the word for such people is parasite. . .less by CJ Says on November 04 2008, 09:25 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

500 Years of Serfdom Buckle down CJ. You're goin down that "poor" road with the tide and weight of history against you and your family. Unless we turn the clock back a few thousand years and do away with land ownership, you will always be poor. by CJs Landlord on November 04 2008, 09:32 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@ farmer brown - do you have a point to make? Or is your only advice "not to stand in the road" Wait a minute......CJ, are you writing under FARMER BROWN now? Or are you just in the same school? by Donkie on November 04 2008, 09:57 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

For Donkie and CJ's landlord For CJ's landlord - I am not poor - I am amazed on a daily basis that I seem to be the only one around who has savings in the bank - doesn't ANYONE save any more ? To me cash in the bank is freedom and trust me, I am very free. For Donkie - On . .more realestateweb I post under the name "CJ Says" ONLY - unlike many of the bulls here I don't have the need to fabricate other aliases to support my ideas. . .less by CJ says on November 04 2008, 10:25 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

CJ Says {The majority of black workers are not clued up about the ways of finance} This is racist and you don't even understand why, and then you go help them and they dont listen - you martyr you. The majority of any colour people earning minimum wage . .more don't understand interest ! PS I am white with alot of all the different colours in my family. So why I have the chip on my shoulder is because 90% of whites assume I am racist because I am white. That is how they all expose themselves and then hide it in different ways. That is why - For Whites Only is a necessary read for all you hiding racists ! In terms of Cape Town, the white guys did it to themselves. They all take their money out the cdountry, run it down and create a cheap currency. Then foreign people come here and see how well we live and how really cheap property is and buy everything. Not very complicated. . .less by Wayne on November 04 2008, 11:20 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

This country I have a passion for this country and want to empower as many as possible through property ownership, with good sense though. There are two common traits with all our clients who make money with us - They are positive and not racists. . .more This slowing down of the market has been great as our country needed the previously disadvantaged to catch up on income to purchase property, and in the mean time all the speculators to exit. It opened up beautifully and is going to be great for this country. It irritates me when people run the country down, but are making good money and a great lifestyle. . .less by Wayne on November 04 2008, 11:26 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Racism I suggest you go read the For Whites Only book before you make such comments. Our country still has everything to do with race. On a thursday afternoon at a Jhb golf club 99 % of people are still white, on our domesticflights 95% are white. We . .more don't need to fight about it, but to not accept it is ludicrous. Every day people ask me why we investing in areas that are - going black ! If you don't pick up comments like this chancing are you probably agree. Please, I love the country, but am capitalist so please don't all agree with me because otherwise I'll lose my competitive edge. . .less by Freemarketman response on November 04 2008, 11:33 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Wayne, you are the racist To me whether satirical or not you are a racist and i am disappointed with Jackie for publishing such an article. not only black people are involeved in country. you should have discussed issues that lead to crime; issues like Zimbabwe which has led to an . .more influx of unemployment and desperate foreigners. . .less by Black Middle Class on November 04 2008, 11:55 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Black Middle Class Unsure where you going on this - Please explain. Crime and Zim are big issues which I haven't raised, so rather confused as to your point. In the article please elaborate the racism specifics and reason you call yourself "Black Middle Class " . .more ? The problem with this internet thing is you could be white. . .less by Wayne on November 04 2008, 12:49 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@Wayne Dont be so serious bud, what is wrong with a bit of inter-racial banter? Also, it is amazing how quickly a white guy can be labled "racist" by everybody, but a black has to say a lot of really bad stuff before he does. Also, why is . .more it offensive when you call someone black, and they are black? I dont get offended when someone calls me white//boer/whitey/honkey/? . .less by Donkie on November 04 2008, 13:10 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Donkie my boet Donkie - you really are. Your comment - "I am curious. What does this country (SA) have to offer?" Why are you still here? Do us all a favour and go - quickly. Or maybe you are overseas already and like everyone else that leaves, spends the day . .more surfing SA web sites because you miss this place so much. Great article Wayne - sadly most weeks I still hear someone say something racist quite matter of factly. All of them must go - more opportunties for us. . .less by James on November 04 2008, 13:17 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

To Black Middle class Wayne doesn't sound racist to me at all. I disagree with you. Take another read through the article. by James on November 04 2008, 13:20 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@ "more opportunties for us".James Well why dont YOU answer the question then James? Sounds like you are saying "there are not enoght opportunities for us here, we need more people to leave"? by Donkie on November 04 2008, 13:30 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

I don't buy your act Wayne OKaaaay - so you are saying the majority of black workers ARE clued up about the ways of finance. Sadly, I am not seeing it. Care to share with us where all these financially literate workers are located. If you want to empower them with . .more property, how about helping those in shacks to get the government grant so that they can acquire a brick house ... oh, sorry, no money in that for you so you won't be doing that. I do that and I am racist of course. OK, so you then flog them your services and persuade them to buy an asset that is in the biggest crash this century - that should really benefit them. Oh, and then you show them how they can then screw their financially illiterate brothers in the inner cities by charging them exorbitant rent. Oh, and by the way, how many people are YOU employing. . .less by CJ Says on November 04 2008, 14:39 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Bon Voyage Donkie Have a safe trip....... by James on November 04 2008, 14:42 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

For Freemarketman The whole black cultural system seems to unintentionally hold individuals back. They struggle to save and get ahead because if they have money then they are expected to help out all the non working relatives around. Being financial illiterate . .more they don't realise that the instalment deals offered by the furniture shops are daylight robbery. The tribal system is based on the Chief making decisions and handing out goodies to those in need. I sometimes feel like a father figure / chief in the work place - I am expected to solve problems and advise. I would be far happier not to have to do this, but firstly it is almost expected of me and secondly, it is my way of trying to help, and thirdly, a happy workforce is an effective one. You think progress is being made but then someone dies and a 3 year loan at 30% annual interest for funerals, caskets and slaughtered cows is needed ... and down the slippery slope to constant poverty the worker falls. Sure, there are many white people I know who are also useless with money, but my point is that it is easy and convenient to blame the lack of black faces in planes and golf clubs on nasty Whitey, but in my opinion the black community is certainly not blameless. . .less by CJ Says on November 04 2008, 14:59 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

James and Brennan. Where is your list of what this country has to offer mates? I am still waiting...... Cant come up with any? Dont tell what a wonderful country this is, and then have nothing to back it up with. As far as I am . .more concerned, the weather in SA is quite nice, but there is a lot of S*** places in the world with nice weather. . .less by Donkie on November 04 2008, 15:19 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

True colours Go CJ - you persecute a population for 100 years and then wonder where their self esteem went ? Then you link it to their chief and culture, and then say they must take blame. You're an ignorant nasty piece of work. And it soothes your . .more conscience and ego to be this fatherly figure. Go read the book - You are embarrassing yourself, and the book is 230 pages of research that explains why you are such an idiot, and I can't do it in a few lines. People like you are the reason for slogans like "One boer One bullet !!!" but luckily for Ubuntu they don't all want to take you out. I can't say I feel the same. Your disgusting comments is the cause of still many problems in this country. You have that deep prejudice and wonder why we need Affirmative Action. Markgraff was recorded - but, as many do, you speak with the same tongue. . .less by Wayne on November 04 2008, 15:26 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

OK, so the real Wayne emerges Tell me again. Wayne, how many people did you say you employ? Oh, and while you are at it, run by me again all these people I persecuted over the last century (is this a Buddhist reincarnation thing ?) - was helping my workers "persecuting" ... . .more oh no, that was me 'soothing my ego'. And while we are at it, how come saying "black workers tend to be financially illiterate" racist yet saying "Blacks have no self esteem" is hokey dokey. YOU, I suspect, are the nasty piece of work here. The fact that you want to kill someone for having different opinions to you reflects that. Of course, that is the general thinking at present in your beloved ANC that you have hero worshipped in the past. I am employing and helping black South Africans - you are screwing them for financial gain and I am sure you have found a way to get your hands into the BEE moneypot as well using your ANC connections. Sorry mate, you are not impressing me - you are so self righteous and smug yet fail to answer any of the questions I put to you and then you fall back to the old line of "you must be a racist" whenever someone disagrees with you. . .less by CJ Says on November 04 2008, 15:48 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Why SA ? Donkie, Before I went full time in property I had a J.O.B that resulted in me travelling the globe and Africa extensively for many years. It is of my opinion, there is no better place than SA, forget the sunny skys they got them in many other . .more countries. I realise that SA is a 3rd world country, with segments that are indeed 1st world, yet as white south africans we where brought up with the best schools, hospitals etc etc. So we think we are entitled to a certain standard, becuase why? we pay our taxes right? Well thats not the case and if you feel what you are entitled to is not happening you either got to make it happen or go somewhere else. I choose to make it happen. So here we are in a 3rd world country the gateway to africa. We are a developing country and one of the G5 of developing nations (Brazil, China, India, Mexico and South Africa) These countries are the future of the developing world and where the growth is going to be. So us with our education should be able to lead the charges and grow our businesses as the demand increases and the population is uplifted. How anyone can not see that is beyond me actually... SA and africa has potential to be a huge manufacturer and exporter of so many products. It just requires government structures to build an environment that is conducive. That is a major challenge . .less by Brennan on November 04 2008, 15:54 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

SAY WHOT??? Geez guys...isnt this supposed to be a "property" blog?? Looks more like politics and racism to me......?? You're both on the wrong website... Better still....why dont you get each others email adresses and continue your little fight there by Curious on November 04 2008, 15:55 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

pt 2 yes a challenge but it can be done. We have the infrustructure, natural resources, work force, our proximity to trade routes, climate for various industries such as agriculture, space/land. But the most people we knock SA have not even . .more been out of SA never mind Africa, Asia, or South America. Trust me I have a pile of maxi passports filled with my travels from New York to the biggest dumps of cities the globe has to offer and SA is way up there for lots of reasons not just what I have mentioned in this small space. Get out there to other countries, do business and you will see other countries are not as great as they are made out to be.. . .less by Brennan on November 04 2008, 16:03 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

LOL Brennan, you are screwing financially desperate folk for personal gain - the only person you are uplifting is yourself - so spare us the pep talk. by CJ Says on November 04 2008, 16:05 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Wait, wait, let me guess ... Brennan was an air steward !!! by CJ PI says on November 04 2008, 16:11 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Waste of time We all know we buy things emotionally and justify intellectually. On this site we have shown how incorrect your numbers are, but you always wish to ignore them. It doesn't matter, your prejudice is deep and you will never invest in a country . .more ruled by this "black cultural system" you think is so inferior. Your employment numbers are immaterial - maybe I employ more than you maybe I don't. Maybe you are richer than me maybe you're not. What's your point ? Employing people is done so that you can sit on your A*** - it's not an altruistic concept. If you donate all your profit to charity I'll bow down, but to have staff who you consider inferior is a deep issue. You have been caught out for who you are. And as I said, property investors in this country will have to be non racist, so please don't apply with us, you don't fit the criteria. . .less by Wayne on November 04 2008, 16:14 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@ Wayne Your advancing of the stereotypes suggests you believe in them and therefore a racist yourself. You could have chosen another way of getting your point across. i believe i am black middle class beause i am black LSM 8. I own 4 properties and drive a . .more German sedan and own a small business. i am not over-geared. @ CJ. Wayne is right. Black people are credit-averse. Your employees do not represent the total black population and please dont act like a retard compare apples and apples. this is SA and not the UK. . .less by Black Middle Class on November 04 2008, 16:15 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@Black Middle Class I hear you. In my view the difference is my stereotypes are not defamatory. They are for statistical analysis. To say white people like cars and black people are debt averse is not racist. If I believed all white people are racist pigs - that . .more too would be racist, but to deny they are there and hide behind may other issues is a waste of time. The point is difficult to get accross, because as a white guy I experience much more racism than my black son, because the white guys, as per CJ, can't ask him directly about his culture and chief and all the subtleties, they ask me. Whites window dress in front of black people constantly - Deep down they still feel superior. It is a deeply emotional concept and I was busy writing a book about how racism effects investing in SA when I read the book "For Whites Only" and it's a masterpiece I couldn't have come close to. . .less by Wayne on November 04 2008, 16:40 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

OK, BMC, let's get the 'Black SA' take I don't see any hesitation from my black workers at getting into credit debt - the furniture chains make their income solely from lending to their customers (mostly of colour) at rip off rates. The "African" bank had no problem with arranging a staggering . .more 30% interest loan. I was not referring to the black 'population', I said black "workers" - the "blue overall" manual labourers out there. Wayne takes offence that I have been trying to help my workers. As a black person yourself, do you think I should just leave them alone to fix their own problems. Got financial problems, don't bother me, go to the township loanshark at 50% a month. Beat your wife up in a drunken rage ... not my problem. Got ripped off by several financial scams - tell someone who cares. Burnt your shack down 3 years in a row - not interested, it is election time so tell it to the ANC officials when they turn up again to make their usual unfulfilled promises. Is this what I have to do to be non racist in the new South Africa ? . .less by CJ Says on November 04 2008, 16:44 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

CJ, pot calling the kettle black ? Gee CJ, so what you waiting for why dont you go buy at full market price instead of waiting for prices to drop/crash, buyers to suffer and all that doom and gloom you preach? You yourself are a wanna be property bargain hunter and I am sure the bloke you . .more buy from (if ever) at 63% below wont be smiling all the way to the bank. or will he CJ? Please explain slowly so we can ALL understand? Oh boy you are confused... Only difference is I am doing it, you just talk nonsense about what you might or might not do. But anyway my business is about offering solutions where I am the last resort. Before I buy from any seller I educate them on all their options. Its up to them to choose what fits them best. Nobody is holding any guns, as a seller with a problem, I did not get them into that spot, but I sure help them get out of it. Most dont listen some do, thats life. move on. ROFLMAO . .less by Brennan on November 04 2008, 16:57 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Oh boy... Donkie and Brennan, having traveled the world myself a lot, I agree with Brennan on this one 100%. SA has its problems, we all know them, but when you get to see the realities of a lot of other countries out there, we really don't look half bad here in . .more SA. Cj - a tenant in the southern suburbs gave his notice on Friday, I advertised over the weekend, had 22 responses, did credit checks yesterday and signed up a new tenant today, increasing the rent by 15%. Who said there was an oversupply of rental accommodation in Cape Town/SA? Sorry Cj, what were you saying? Huh? Huh? Can't hear you? Re. RK, never read one of his books. Browsed them and frankly they seemed too easy, too rags to riches bull dust. I did it the old fashioned way, investing steadily over time. It's not difficult, you just have to make a start and like any kind of investing, the sooner the better. It gets easier and easier with time. You enjoy the ups and bear the downs (all puns intended). No rocket science, no easy way to riches, just good old fashioned wealth creation over time. . .less by CT Landlord on November 04 2008, 17:11 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Actually Not an air steward, but I did have a chuckle, I have more air miles than them too..... by Brennan on November 04 2008, 17:14 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Oh, and Cj Cut the political c**p - this is a property forum. Keep your politics to yourself, or go dump on the politics forum. Stick to what you are good at Cj; predicting doom and gloom etc. We are really not interested in your political or racial take on things. by CT Landlord on November 04 2008, 17:15 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

For CT landlord Present value of property and rent asked please. by CJ Says on November 04 2008, 17:15 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Rental market Yip CT. I just took transfer of 5 x 2 bed flats here in Durban. All renovated with new kitchens, tiles, paint and plumbing updated. (hint- i did not do the work myself, so I can sleep at night knowing i am employing south africans) Nice... As well as i . .more dont need to worry about been a slumlord, Nice... again... Anyway, all rented out within a month and I am getting more than the previous highest rental. Flats on on the bus route just out of the CBD. tenants are happy I am happy, Cj's upset.. . .less by Brennan on November 04 2008, 17:25 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Brennan, here's the difference I will buy a house at a fair price when the madness of the global crash is over. In the mean time I provide jobs that feed many families. You intentionally seek out people in financial despair and tell them they have a few choices, one of which . .more is to sell to you at a price where you will get rich and they will get screwed, and they can take it or leave it - and then you come on here and boast about it and make out that you are saving the nation. That's the difference. . .less by CJ says on November 04 2008, 17:28 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

LESSONS.... Who cares what the present values are... What he cares about is what he paid and what rent he is bringing in. Get it??????? Probably not but i will keep at it I promise! by Brennan on November 04 2008, 17:28 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@ CJ oh pleeese, spare me... Ok So you are just going to screw one family out of their house then vs my hundreds ? And as you say I am buying from desperate people, 100% fact. During the boom years and during the way down, these people exist. Trust me you have no clue about . .more foreclosure and the results thereof. I am an option, one of many. The worst option been doing nothing and getting your house sold via sale in execution by the Sherriff. Having your kids stuff sold off to pay the bank. Having a bad credit record for years. Perhaps you should point fingers at the banks and buyers as they took on loans and lent out the money. Many of my purchases involve renovation/conversion so I am making the area better as well as creating work. But anyway most sellers I buy from are not those in financial difficulty as there is no equity.. Think buddy think...! . .less by Brennan on November 04 2008, 18:03 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Brennan, re. Cj Do you think if we ignore him he will just P*** off? Doubt it, but I will anyway. I really am tired of his drivel. Congrats on the purchases, nothing like happy tenants, happy cash flow, happiness. I differ from Cj's hollier-than-thou . .more condescending comments, you are providing a service at a cost to client. No guns are involved. According to Cj first you were a slum lord, now you are a vulture preying on the desperate. Ag shame man, he just doesn't like someone making money from property it seems. Goes against all his theories and graphs. . .less by CT Landlord on November 04 2008, 18:16 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Ignorance is bliss.... I love it. I've really enjoyed some of the ignorant comments here. Great article Wayne. Those of you that are negative about this country, by all means, please leave. I love this place. The opportunity is right in front of your eyes, and you fail to see . .more it. But that's ok. More for those who do see it. Without people like you, there would be too many in the game, and Sirius would battle to find the great deals that it does. I don't know why Wayne a Brennan put in the effort here to talk to some of you. You really don't appreciate the knowledge and experience that you are being exposed to. . .less by Dom on November 04 2008, 18:51 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@ Wayne Lee ..."or black guy who is ready to act white". LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! by Rafa on November 04 2008, 19:13 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Just wondering If I am white and I call fellow white people, "white trailer trash" am I been a racist ? by jerry springer on November 04 2008, 19:34 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Ironic how a Japanese American born in India and raised in Hawaii can.. stir up the black-white debate in South Africa. Maybe he could rewrite the book to make it more relevant for South Africa. Make the Rich Dad White and the Poor Dad Black or vice-versa. Controversy sells and he does sell books.... by Bull (Friesian) on November 04 2008, 21:30 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

In conclusion let's clarify something CT Landlord Wayne posted on here a few months back about his admiration of the ANC - when he accused me of being a racist and said he wanted to kill me, I pointed out that he speaks like one of his ANC "I will kill for my leader" buddies. I have not once mentioned my . .more political preferences. As for my "racial take" - the article was full of references to white and black. Black diamonds then made they way into the thread. I thought it appropriate to share my disappointment with one of my workers who I was trying to help get ahead and move up into a brick house from his shack, and who has now plunged himself into debt again. Frankly, I will probably stop helping him, especially as Wayne has pointed out that helping your black workers is racist. Finally, lets face it, someone out there has to buy, so if you and Brennan want to take the gamble, please go ahead. Just stop trying to persuade others to follow you, because I believe you are playing with fire. There is enough pain out there already without the worried BTL crowd sucking more innocents into the mess. I am as bored with you guys as you say you are of me, so I now consider this thread over. . .less by CJ Says on November 04 2008, 23:28 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

sorry Wayne, thread is over Crazy Joe, says your thread is over, I would have liked to carry on the discussion but I cant... hang on... we can! Here goes.. Its really funny, property is now seen as a bad investment, the herd is in panic mode, mainly coming from the . .more guys in equities who have seen huge loses vs property losses which have been minimal. Funny thing is these equities guys like us to believe they are a lot wiser and the markets are efficient, yet they are giving away blue chip stocks for nothing. Currently we are seeing a massive buying opportunity for those who can afford to buy. Those that cant afford to buy will make all sorts of excuses why property is bad. Yet perhaps they need to work a bit harder and smarter and not be so pig headed about why they never seem to get ahead of the game? . .less by Brennan on November 05 2008, 08:31 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

the reason why I read these pages is because I like to get an idea about what the property market is doing. Living in Austria and having some investment property in good old SA requires me to keep abreast of things. There have been some great postings on this site and many great links . .more (many thanks to CJ) but having to trail through all this C*** about racism is just too taxing....so could everybody please stick to the point. The only thing I have leant from the above comments is that racism is alive and well in SA. . .less by mischa on November 05 2008, 10:11 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

great article Wayne too true ! by Mr Black on November 05 2008, 14:38 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Clever D*** I liked Wayme's article. Its seldom we get honest and original South African writing. I have always been suspicious of Robert , especially when he puts his new dad on a pedestal at the expense of his old dad. If I remember right his old dad was a . .more school principal who earnt an honest living and was probably much more deserving of respect than mister clever D***. . .less by Ken Meek on November 05 2008, 14:54 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Interesting article I have not yet seen Kiyosaki's name on the Forbes List , please correct me if I am wrong. I fully agree that he is most porpular in his Networking circle, ( no harm intended , but these network schemes folks come across as irritations, they preach . .more laziness on HG , and free this and that ) well in life there is nothing called free, even the RDP houses handed to the "disadvantaged" is not free, it costed me somewhere along the line, probably you too. I think it's about time we throw the race card out the window, Wayne and CJ , can we rather focus on the matters at hand juxtapose your "personal" racial / politics discussion. We are all aware by now of the situation in SA, it's nothing to write home about or even entertain. but CJ , I enjoy reading your comments , they are comical at times but makes sense. . .less by Vincent Masilo on November 05 2008, 15:49 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

truth be told Smart people win. Stupid people lose. Every market has a winning strategy and a bunch of losers sitting around pissing and moaning. by smug on November 05 2008, 20:17 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Yes, yes, yes, Vincent Masilo Yes - no more racism. by Felix on November 10 2008, 17:44 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Lemmings unite in Misery and blame others for their stupidity If you dont like his books dont buy them.For future reference by the time any book makes its way to the CNA,everyone that has money or Kop has read it already from good book stores a year earlier have already changed the market. Kiyosaki advocates very . .more clearly that "you" must educate yourself very well before playing with any investment class. So unfortunately in SA we have a culture of blame. You will succeed only when you take responsability for your own actions. Buying a R1M house and getting a bond of R1,5M on a R10K per month salary and living in your investment along with R500K of "assets" TV's etc.is stupid in any bodies book. Its great the more people blame Robert and sell their properties to prove him wrong, the more properties I can buy cheaply by delaying my gratification and doing everything Robert suggested. The next wave is here (almost) for those of you who actually grasped his books. The last one washed over us in 1996. . .less by Mark on November 25 2008, 12:54 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Wayne has a point My main gripe about reading Dolf De Roos and Robert Kiyosaki is that they don't take into account the South African market. Yes, they offer invaluable advice, but I found that many estate agents haven't bothered to read them and don't have a clue about . .more buying property for investment purposes. Andrea . .less by Andrea on January 19 2009, 13:57 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Robert Kyosaki would naver have made it in SA Why? Our property market bears no resemblance to the US prop market. Our lenders, act in concert (you could call it a financial monopoly) and, fortunately, have common lending practices. Also, because of a major difference in lending practices, viz. the . .more fact that South African borrowers are liable for the full amount outstanding on their bonds irrespective of the proceeds that the property may realise on a forced sale, unlike the USA where the lenders can only look to the property for the settlement of the outstanding bonds. In the RSA if the borrower cannot come up with the difference, the only alternative open to the borrower is to file for insolvency .. . our banks are not that quick to foreclose. The buying opportunities in the USA are not replicated in the RSA .. Kyosaki would never have risen to the same prominence in the RSA. . .less by Quidditas on March 02 2009, 10:15 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Eiendom-artikel Sien h/d ene by bothac@robhitch.co.za on March 02 2009, 13:47 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

It's all about choice I believe that all of us have choices and we make decisions relating to our choices. I'm a real estate investor, share investor and Im involved in Amway, Im living the life I always dreamed of through the choices I made, through listenting to Robert . .more Kiyosaki, Dolf De Roos and all the others including some of the SA guys. At the end of the day, you must make your own informed decision. Success is choice, wealth is a choice, not to work is a choice. I'm off to the USA soon again to spend 6 months in the Bahamas, Florida, Miami etc. because of choices I made to change my life..Listen to what you hear, read and see, but make informed decisions, because you are in control of your own life.. . .less by Dreamlife on March 07 2009, 16:32 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

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